MAYBE the Bible is wrong. Crazy concept, right?, I know. But, maybe the people who wrote the people we're scared of homosexuality because its been a social Taboo for thousands of years now. So maybe, yet again, CRAZY concept, the writers changed what ';happened'; and in this all glorious book they changed society forever. Why? Because they were scared of some guy liking them, or maybe they were scared of liking some guy. So by writing it Biblicly (ya I know, spelled wrong) it became ';morally wrong'; for them. And by it being Biblicly wrong maybe it wouldn't happen to them. And bam bam bam, Domino Effect, these men basically wrote in stone that Homosexuality was wrong. Because God didn't like it.
But thats just the Bible, written by men, not by God. And maybe we should start living our lives by ourselves. Not caring if this God person would find us morally wrong. I mean, what does anyone know about morals anyway? We lie, and in the Bible I'm pretty sure thats wrong, everyone lies. Thats morally wrong, but we do it. And people lust after others. People steal from each other. Morally wrong things that at one point we've all done. So who are you to judge the next person. So what they're homosexual, So what you lie.
Science, Universal concepts that don't exlude groups of people. Well Science has told me, and continues to tell me, that homosexuality is a gene that gets passed down hereditarily. So if I'm born with said gene would that make me morally wrong? And if it does make me morally wrong to be born with that gene, does it also make me morally wrong to have been born white? Or to have blue eyes and 10 toes?
If you're born with something, say a 6 fingers on one hand, does that make you morally wrong? I mean Middle Ages, people got burned at the stake for being born a little different. And I know in the Bible none of the above things were called morally wrong, but why would a part of me be called morally wrong if I was born with it? It just doesn't make sense.
Your Bible isn't law. Its an ideology thats been widely accepted by Western Civilization. Its a justification for actions that are morally wrong, but are ok'ed because its wrong in the Bible. God didn't write the Bible, nor did Jesus. Men, people like you and me, did. So as a person, what gives any of us a right to pass judgement on the person next to us. So what if Susie has a crush on Kate, and if Bill has a crush on Charlie. And you by happens chance have a crush on Tom (if you're a girl) or Amanda(if you're a guy). Does proving that Bible said it was morally wrong change that Susie likes Kate? Or that Bill likes Charlie? Does it change the fact that you like Tom or Amanda?
Not reallyRant on Bible being used to prove being Gay is ';Morally Wrong'; Please give me comments and suggestions.
FIRST OF ALL, Christians have alot of the Bible WRONG. This is not an attempt to ';knock christians,'; this is a simple statement of fact. Read below. There are actually 4 different words used in the Old Testament and New Testament that refer TO HELL. These words are: Hades, Gehenna, Sheol and Tartarus. THESE ARE THE ONLY WORDS USED TO DENOTE HELL IN THE BIBLE. This is IMPORTANT, because when you look up the meaning of these words, you find out EXACTLY WHAT HELL IS!
Occurrences of Hell in the Bible
#1. Hades mentioned in the Bible 10X by Name
#2. Gehenna mentioned in the Bible 12X by Name
#3. Sheol mentioned in the Bible 66X by Name
#4. Tartarus mentioned in the Bible 1X by Name
#5. The Lake of Fire
#1 HADES
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/hades
The unseen world, translated hell in A.V., Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27,31; Rev. 1:18; 6:8; 20:13,14. See Hell. Eventually, came to designate the abode of the dead.
#2 GEHENNA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/gehenna
Gehenna' is a word tracing to Greek, ultimately from Hebrew: Gêhinnôm also Gei ben-Hinnom (Hebrew: גיא בן הינום) meaning the Valley of Hinnom. The valley, which forms the southern border of ancient Jerusalem, is first mentioned in Joshua 15:8. Originally it referred to a garbage dump in a deep narrow valley right outside the walls of Jerusalem (in modern-day Israel) where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse and keep down the stench. It is also the location where bodies of executed criminals, or individuals denied a proper burial, would be dumped. Today, ';Gehenna'; is often used as a synonym for Hell.
#3. SHEOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sheol
Sheol (שאול) is the Hebrew language word denoting the ';abode of the dead';; the ';underworld';, ';the common grave of mankind'; or ';pit';. It is also transliterated Sheh-ole, in Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries and Strong's Concordances. In the Hebrew Bible it is portrayed as a comfortless place beneath the earth, beyond gates, where both the bad and the good, slave and king, pious and wicked must go after death to sleep in silence and oblivion in the dust. In some sources, for example in Deuteronomy 32:22, Sheol seems to be synonymous with the ';depths of the earth';. Sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous dead; the righteous Job sees it as his destination (Job 3). In the Book of Job, while Satan is portrayed as tormenting and testing the living, he does not appear to have any particular presidency over Sheol, or to dwell in Sheol.
#4 TARTARUS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/tartarus
Christianity's Tartarus: In the Bible, 2 Peter 2:4, Tartarus is designated as a section of Hades that the fallen angels who had produced the Nephilim of Genesis 6 were cast into to await judgment by God. It does not figure promeninently into the doctrines of Christianity; many translations of the Bible insert Hell in the place of Tartarus. No other specific use of the word Tartarus is in the Bible, however, Jude 6 describes the abode of the same fallen angels mentioned in 2 Peter as 'total darkness'.
#5 THE LAKE OF FIRE (which means the 2nd death, the lake of fire)
See (The Book of Revelation 20:14) and also Acts Ch. 5, the story of Ananias %26amp; Sapphira sinning against the Holy Spirit.
Here we see in The Book of Revelation Ch. 20:14 where ';Death %26amp; Hades'; or both DEATH AND HELL are thrown into the Lake of Fire, THE 2ND DEATH, to be destroyed eternally it says HERE! So, we see that the Lake of Fire is Symbolic for ETERNAL DESTRUCTION. Much the same way Gehenna was for the destruction it caused! Nothing that goes in comes out. Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5 are both eternally destroyed for sinning against the ';holy ghost/spirit'; for lying to it. So, much like before they were born, they are now, neither knowing anything nor suffering.Rant on Bible being used to prove being Gay is ';Morally Wrong'; Please give me comments and suggestions.
not only does the Bible say being homosexual is morally wrong, nature also says this. Why do you think nature won't allow the practicing homosexuals to reproduce. Put 2 men/women on an island, come back in 40 years and noones left. If they were born gay, then i would have to reevaluate my christian religion and possibly leave it. Science has yet to prove that people are born homosexual so as of this moment, heterosexuality is still king. If science did tell you this, please list the source, because I've never heard of it. As for the Bible being law, check out where our U.S. laws came from. It's good to see some flow of ideas going around today, and i hope you will look into mine. :D
Lastly, most of your problems/questions can be answered with these 3 books.
1. Case for a Creator: Lee Strobel
2. Case for Christianity: C.S. Lewis (very short book)
3. Evidence for Christianity: Josh McDowell
i hate to comment anything about religon. But come and think about it, if the technolgoy and science keep changing n break through past invention, why is it all religon's ';theory'; still stick to those passed down hundreds or thousands of years?
Why should Christians do all the research?
If you're a God non-believer, then you should offer proof from the Bible that it is not a sin.
Come on, prove the Christians wrong!!
Meanwhile, stop looking silly with your useless ';don't have a clue'; type attitude towards Christians.
Before we begin we must clarify the concept of ';prooftexts'; or isogesis. To defend their assertion that God condemns homosexuals, people always use small passages from the Bible to prove their point. Using the Bible in this manner is destructive. Instead of ';exegesis'; which involves examining the history of scripture to find out what it means and how it applies to us, ';isogesis'; approaches scripture with a preconceived idea of what you will find there. It is abuse of scripture. In isogesis you search the Book until you find a passage you think applies and use it as your ';proof'; that God backs you up. You isolate that phrase or passage, take it out of context and improperly use it to back up your argument. It's like a friend taking a sentence or phrase out of a letter you wrote and using it to represent what you believe as a whole. It's easy to be taken out of context. You wouldn't want your views represented that way, but that's how the ideas and beliefs of the Bible's authors are presented everyday!
It is my sincere hope that GLBT Christians and our critics alike will approach this material with open hearts and minds. Not everyone will come away convinced, but I've discovered it takes time to unlearn all the misinterpretations of scripture we've been taught through the years. I invite you to sit with this information, pray and meditate on it, and let God speak to your heart. I hope that when your journey is complete you'll see God's word with new eyes and realize GLBT Christians are welcomed in Jesus' one word, ';Whosoever.';
Blessings,
Candace Chellew
Editor
~~~
Genesis 19 describes how two angels visited Sodom and were welcomed into Lot's house. The men of the city gathered around the house and demanded that Lot send the visitors to the mob so that they might know the angels. [The Hebrew verb yada (to know) is ambiguous. It appears 943 times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). In only about a dozen of these cases does it refers to sexual activity; it is not clear whether the mob wanted to rape the angels or to meet with them, and perhaps attack them physically. From the context, it is obvious that their mood was not friendly]. Lot refused, but offered his two virgin daughters to be heterosexually raped if that would appease the mob. The offer was declined. God decided to destroy the city because of the wickedness of its inhabitants. The angels urged Lot and his family to flee and to not look back. Unfortunately, Lot's wife looked the wrong way, so God killed her because of her curiosity.
God was apparently not critical of Lot for offering his two daughters to be raped. However, God was angry at the other inhabitants of the town. He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone (sulfur). He presumably killed all of the men in the mob, their wives and other adults, as well as children, infants, newborns, etc. It is unclear from these few verses whether God demolished the city because the citizens:
were uncharitable and abusive to strangers
wanted to rape people
engaged in homosexual acts.
The Church has traditionally accepted the third explanation. In fact, the term sodomy which means anal intercourse is derived from the name of the city, Sodom. But the first explanation is clearly the correct one. As recorded in Matthew 10:14-15 and Luke 10:7-16, Jesus implied that the sin of the people of Sodom was to be inhospitable to strangers. In Ezekeiel 16:48-50, God states clearly that he destroyed Sodom's sins because of their pride, their excess of food while the poor and needy suffered, and worshiped many idols; sexual activity is not even mentioned. Jude disagreed with God; he wrote that Sodom's sins were sexual in nature. Various biblical translations describe the sin as fornication, going after strange flesh, sexual immorality, perverted sensuality, homosexuality, lust of every kind, immoral acts and unnatural lust; you can take your pick.
We are faced with the inescapable and rather amusing conclusion that the condemned activities in Sodom had nothing to do with sodomy.
[1]
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The story of Sodom and Gomorrah actually condemns inhospitality and idolatry, not homosexuality. Read the Scriptural cross-references: Deuteronomy 29:23, Isaiah 1:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Lamentations 4:6, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Amos 4:11, Zephaniah 2:9, Matthew 10:15 / Luke 10:12, Luke 17:29, Romans 9:29, Jude v.7, Revelation 11:8
NOWHERE in the Scriptures does it say that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexual sex. Even if the specific point of the story was concerning a sexual matter, rather than hospitality, the issue is rape not homosexuality. Jesus claimed the issue was simply one of showing hospitality to strangers (Luke 10:12). How ironic that those who discriminate against homosexuals seem to be the true practitioners of the sin of Sodom. [2]
--------------------------------------…
Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
~~~
Leviticus 18:22 states: ';Thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.'; The term abomination (to'ebah) is a religious term, usually reserved for use against idolatry; it does not mean a moral evil. The verse seems to refer to temple prostitution, which was a common practice in the rest of the Middle East at that time. Qadesh referred to male religious prostitutes. (See the discussion of Deuteronomy)
Leviticus 20:13 states: ';If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they should surely be put to death....';. The passage is surrounded by prohibitions against incest, bestiality, adultery and intercourse during a woman's period. But this verse is the only one in the series which uses the religious term abomination; it seems also to be directed against temple prostitution.
These passages are part of the Jewish Holiness Code which also:
permits polygamy
prohibits sexual intercourse when a woman has her period,
bans tattoos
prohibits eating rare meat
bans wearing clothes that are made from a blend of textiles
prohibits cross-breeding livestock
bans sowing a field with mixed seed
prohibits eating pigs, rabbits, or some forms of seafood
requires Saturday to be reserved as the Sabbath
Churches have abandoned the Holiness Code; it is no longer binding on modern-day Christians. They can wear tattoos, eat shrimp, wear polyester-cotton blends and engage in temple prostitution without violating this particular section of the Bible. Although this code is obsolete for Christians, many clergy still focus on those passages which deal with homosexuality.[1]
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It is likely that the prohibition thou shall not lie with a male as with a woman came about for one of the following reasons:
Only sexual acts which could lead to procreation were valued as the tribes needed to grow in numbers in order to survive.
Male homosexual sex may have been connected in the Hebrew mind with idolatry. Notice that Lev. 18:2 deals with idolatry. In fact many of the prohibitions in the Holiness Code were probably connected with idolatrous practices, see 19:26-29.
Women were second class citizens in the Hebrew culture and were generally treated as property. If a man was penetrated in sexual intercourse he was being treated like a woman and so was degraded in the Hebrew mind. The offense was not that this was a homosexual act, the offense was that a MAN was treated like a WOMAN. If this line of thinking is correct it would serve to explain why there is no prohibition against female homosexual acts in the Old Testament. Women could not be degraded by such an act as they were already not held in high esteem. there is a theory that the Hebrew people believed in a perfect order of creation and anything that violated that order was considered unclean or an abomination. A probable example would be that fish were considered the perfect sea animal, hence anything in the sea that did not have scales and fins was unclean. (Lev. 11:9-10) Cattle were the perfect cud chewing animal, hence anything that chewed cud, but didn't have hooves was unclean. (Lev. 11:6). If this theory is correct then the prohibition against male sex acts would be violating the role of the perfect ideal human: man. It would seem to mix the sex role of the imperfect woman with the ideal role of the man.
Even if the reader disagrees with the theories stated above they should take note that these verses are a part of the Hebrew scriptures often called the 'Holiness Code'. This 'code' is no longer followed by the Christian church.
In Leviticus 18:19 (which is just a few verses before the prohibition 'thou shall not lie with a man as with a woman') having sexual relations with a woman during her period is forbidden yet this is not proclaimed as a binding rule for today.
Also, 18:8 and 18:18 show that this code allows for polygamy yet this is now considered immoral.
19:28 prohibits tattoos yet they are not proclaimed as sinful by the Christian church.
19:19 forbids crossbreeding of livestock yet the church allows, farmers who do this very thing to worship in church.
19:19 forbids sowing a field with mixed feed, yet farmers are not condemned who plant hay and alfalfa.
11:7 forbids the eating of pigs, yet people unashamedly have a side of bacon with their eggs!
11:6 forbids the eating of rabbits (hares) because they don't have cloven hooves but they chew cud, yet some Christians love to eat rabbit.
11:9-10 forbids the eating of any seafood that doesn't have fins and scales, yet shrimp and lobster lovers are not told to repent by Christians, nor is Red Lobster picketed!
23:3 instructs that the seventh day of the week is to be the Sabbath, not Sunday, yet the Christian church disregards this.
Deut 22 states that a woman is not telling the truth if she says she was raped but no one heard her scream.
It is clear that the Christian church does not abide by the Holiness Code. It was a set of regulations which governed the Hebrew tribes but is not considered binding on the Christian church because there is now a NEW COVENANT IN JESUS CHRIST! The following verses talk about this New Covenant:
Colossians 2:16-17 ';Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is Christ.';
Hebrews 8:18 ';For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect.';
Hebrews 8:13 ';In that Christ says 'a new covenant,' Christ has made the first obsolete.';
Hebrews 9:9-10 The Old Covenant ';was symbolic...concerned only with foods and drink, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.';
There are those who recognize that Christians are under a New Covenant and yet state that the Old Covenant was divided into three parts, civil, ceremonial and moral. They then insist that the moral part of the Old Covenant remain in force. This distinction can nowhere be found in the Old Covenant itself. In fact, many guidelines clearly have both a civil/ceremonial use AND a moral one (See Leviticus 19:13). Who, then, has the authority to decide ';this is morality, but this is civil procedure and this is ceremonial...';?
Since the Christian church does not follow the Holiness Code it has no right to arbitrarily pick Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13-14 as still binding just because it seems to support a particular prejudice. [2]
--------------------------------------…
Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
~~~
Deuteronomy 23:17 states (in the King James Version) ';There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel . This is an ';error'; by the authors of the KJV. The word qadesh in the original text was mistranslated as sodomite. Quadesh means ';holy one'; and is here used to refer to a man who engages in ritual prostitution in the temple. There is little evidence that the prostitutes engaged in sexual activities with men. Other Bible translations use accurate terms such as shrine prostitute, temple prostitute, prostitute and cult prostitute.[1]
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In this passage, the actual word that is being translated is ';qadesh'; which means ';holy one'; or ';someone set apart for a holy purpose.'; In this case the word is referring to people who commit ritual acts of prostitution in order to honor their deity. The clearest translation of this concept would simply be ';temple or ritual prostitute';. For example, Deuteronomy 23:17 should be translated thusly: ';There shall be no ritual prostitute of the daughters of Israel, or a ritual prostitute of the sons of Israel';. Any translation which translates qadesh as pervert or sodomite is blatantly mistranslating. An example which shows this clearly is found in the New King James version which translates qadesh in its male form as 'perverted one' but translates qadesh in its female form as 'ritual harlot', both should be 'ritual harlot or prostitute!' [2]
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Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
~~~
Judges 19 describes an event much like that at Sodom. This time, an unnamed Levite visited the town of Gibeah with his slaves and concubine. He met an old farmer and was made welcome. A gang of men appeared and demanded that the old man send out the Levite that they might homosexually rape or assault him. (It is again not clear what the precise meaning of the verb to know was). The old man argued that they should not abuse the visitor. He offered to give them both the Levite's concubine and his own virgin daughter to be heterosexually raped. The mob accepted the former, raped her all night and finally killed her. The Levite sliced up her body into 12 pieces and sent one to each of the tribes of Israel. This triggered a war between the inhabitants of Gibeah and the Israelites during which tens of thousands died. There was no condemnation against the Levite for sacrificing his concubine, or for committing an indignity to a body. Judges 20:5 emphasizes that the aim of the mob was to kill the stranger - the ultimate act of inhospitality. It appears that these passages condemn abusive treatment of visitors. If they actually refer to homosexual activity, then they condemn homosexual rape; they have nothing at all to say about consentual homosexual relationships.[1]
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JUDGES 19
Here is a story which parallels the Sodom account. The Sodom account showed the inhospitality of a Gentile city-state but in Judges 19 we see an example of extreme inhospitality among the ';children of Israel'; themselves. As in the Genesis account the house is surrounded by men and the host of the house offers women in the place of his guest and says ';HUMBLE THEM...'; (v. 19). This clearly shows the purpose of the attack was to humiliate and most probably to kill the stranger, not to satisfy homosexual ';lust';. (20:5) The guest finally puts his concubine outside and they humiliate him by raping and abusing her all night until she died. This act was an extreme violation of the Hebrew people's sacred code of hospitality. This act of INHOSPITALITY by people of the tribe of Benjamin so enraged the other Hebrew tribes that they went to war with them. When interpreting the Genesis 18-19 account fear and prejudice toward homosexuality cause some people to focus on the fact that the rape would have been homosexual rape and they then condemn all homosexual sex acts. Judges 19 is an almost identical account depicting a group of men raping a woman. Should we therefore conclude that the story was a condemnation of all heterosexual sex acts? After careful study it seems obvious that neither Genesis 18-19 nor Judges 19 were written as tools for condemnation toward homosexuals. The major focus of these stories was the issue of hospitality. [2]
--------------------------------------…
Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
~~~
I Kings 14:24 and 15:12 again refer to temple prostitution. The original word qadesh is mistranslated as sodomite (homosexual) in the King James Version, but as male prostitute, male cult prostitutes, and male shrine prostitutes in more accurate versions. As mentioned before, there is little evidence that homosexuality was involved. Again, the text has nothing to say about consentual homosexual relationships.[1]
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These passages are often translated as if they refer to homosexuals, however the actual word that is being translated is ';qadesh'; which means ';holy one'; or ';someone set apart for a holy purpose.'; In this case the word is referring to people who commit ritual acts of prostitution in order to honor their deity. The clearest translation of this concept would simply be ';temple or ritual prostitute';.
These passages do not condemn homosexuality, for that matter they don't even condemn prostitution. Instead, they condemn the practice of religious prostitution connected with the worship of a foreign god.
At this point the reader should be able to see a pattern developing. In the Genesis and Judges accounts some people choose to ignore the actual issue of hospitality and construe the accounts to condemn homosexuality. In the Deuteronomy and 1st Kings passages the actual issue of idolatry is ignored in favor of construing them as passages condemning homosexuality. [2]
--------------------------------------…
Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
~~~
Romans 1:26 and 27, at first glance, appears to condemn gay and lesbian activity. Paul criticizes sexual activity which is against a person's nature or disposition. But in Greek society of the time, homosexuality and bisexuality was regarded as a natural activity for some people. Thus Paul might have been criticizing heterosexuals who were engaged in homosexual activities against their nature. He might not be referring to homosexuals or bisexuals at all.
The verses preceding 26 might indicate that he was referring to sexual acts associated with idol worship. The verse is too vague to be interpreted as a blanket prohibition of all same-sex activities.[1]
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ROMANS 1:24-27
This passage has been used by some Christians to make an issue over how ';unrighteous'; and sinful homosexuals are. In fact, it has been used to support the view that AIDS is the ';penalty of their error which was due.'; What is fascinating about this kind of application is that it is totally at odds with what, I believe, Paul was really saying. IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF ROMANS CHAPTER ONE YOU MUST READ ROMANS CHAPTERS ONE THROUGH THREE. The outline is as follows:
I. The Gospel is for EVERYONE, Jews and Gentiles. (1:16)
II. Why? Because God's wrath is against ALL unrighteousness. (verse 18).
II. The Gentiles need the Gospel. (1:28-32) The examples of their ';uncleanness'; include idolatry and homosexual acts which are either connected to or resulting from idolatry.
III. But the Jews are just as unrighteous as the Gentiles. (2:3)
IV. ';All have sinned'; and are ';justified (made right with God) FREELY by God's grace (unearned love) through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.'; (3:23-24)
While Paul is certainly not favorable toward the homosexual acts that he is writing about it is interesting to note that Paul classifies them ';unclean'; which is not necessarily a ';moral'; precept. (According to the Holiness Code lobsters and shrimp are ';unclean'; also.) He may be pointing out that though the Jews are different than the Gentiles in that they are ritually ';clean'; (according to the Old Covenant) they are still just as much in need of the grace of the New Covenant.
Let's look at some of the verses in this section:
Verse 27b ';And receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due';. Is Paul here saying that those who committed homosexual acts were punished in some physical way...as in venereal disease? Or could ';uncleanness,'; being cut off from the Old Hebrew Covenant, be the penalty of the Gentile's error?
28 ';And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to adebased mind, to do those things which are not fitting...'; People often take this to mean one of the following things:
Since homosexuals didn't retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind.
Since the Gentiles were idolatrous God gave them over to a debased mind of homosexuality. However, I believe that Paul was saying the following:
';Since the Gentiles did not retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a debased mind. The debased mind is NOT homosexuality but a mind that is centered on unrighteousness, hence the listing of what the Gentile mind is full of in verse 29.
29-32 This list of ';unrighteousness'; is being applied to all Gentiles, not Gentiles that commit homosexual sex acts. It is the Gentiles ';who are worthy of death.'; These verses are really just an exposition of verse 18.
26-27 Another interesting point to consider is that people often use verses 26-27 to prove that Paul used an argument from ';nature'; to prove that homosexual activity was wrong. However that kind of usage of the word ';nature'; is highly unlikely as Paul usually uses the word ';nature'; or ';natural'; to mean not what ';Mother Nature'; does but instead he means ';the previously accepted common usage';. Nature is not a great teacher about ethics and humans are nowhere called in scripture to emulate it. What is more, homosexual activity DOES go on in the animal world.
It must be remembered also that Paul was referring to homosexual ACTS, not homosexuals. AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HOMOSEXUAL ACTS PAUL WAS TALKING ABOUT... NO ONE KNOWS THE BACKGROUND... We must ask ourselves ';what type of homosexual acts was Paul talking about?'; Was he talking exclusively about homosexual acts connected with idolatry? (Perhaps that was the only kind of homosexual activity he was familiar with.) Was he talking about pederasty? Was he talking about homosexual acts committed with slaves? Was he talking about people of heterosexual orientation committing homosexual acts? Just exactly what type of homosexual acts was he concerned with? Do people have the Right to just ASSUME that these verses were a blanket condemnation of homosexual sex in every context?
In my personal opinion Paul was referring to same sex sexual acts committed in idolatrous worship by people he regarded as heterosexual. Even the most conservative theologian can only give their opinion as to what type of same sex acts Paul was referring to. No one can state that God clearly condemns all homosexuality activity based upon these verses. It is just too vague.
As for me, based on the context of Paul's writing in Romans chapters 1-3 I choose to believe that God's New Covenant of grace embraces those who believe in Jesus; being a Jew doesn't make you better than a Gentile; being a heterosexual doesn't make you any better than a homosexual. Romans chapters one through three strike at the very heart of self-righteous pride. It is amazing that some Christians continue to lord their own sense of righteousness over gays and lesbians as if their heterosexual sex acts make them somehow better, or less in need of grace. We are all in need of grace and we ALL have that grace in Jesus Christ. [2]
--------------------------------------…
Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
~~~
I Cor 6:9 Paul lists a many activities that will prevent people from inheriting the Kingdom of God. One has been variously translated as effeminate, homosexuals, or sexual perverts. The original Greek text reads malakoi arsenokoitai. The first word means soft; the meaning of the second word has been lost. [For further discussion of arsenokoitai visit Dr. Rembert Truluck's site.] It was once used to refer to a male temple prostitute (as in the verses from the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament described above). The early Church interpreted the phrase as referring to people of soft morals; i.e. unethical. From the time of Martin Luther, it was interpreted as referring to masturbation . More recently, it has been translated as referring to homosexuals . Each Translator seem to take whatever activity that their society particularly disapproves of and use it in this verse.[1]
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I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10
It is amazing the number of times that you will see the word ';sodomite'; or ';homosexual'; or ';pervert'; in different translations concerning this text. It is amazing because no one knows exactly what the words of the original text mean! The layperson, unfortunately, has no way of knowing that interpreters are guessing as to the exact meaning of these words. Pastors and laypersons often have to rely upon the authority of those who have written lexicons (dictionaries explaining the meaning of words) of Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic words. The authors of scriptural lexicons search for the meaning of the word within the scriptures themselves and also go outside of scripture and research literature written around the same time the scriptures were written. If the interpreter is already prejudiced against homosexuality they can translate these words as condemning homosexual sex even based upon little usage of that word in the Scriptures and little if any contemporaneous usage of that word.
The truth is that the word some translators ';transform'; into ';sodomite/homosexual/pervert'; in I Corinthians 6:9-10 is actually TWO words. Some translators combine them because they ';think'; they go together but they DO NOT KNOW. This uncertainty is reflected in the fact that other translators keep the words separate and translate them ';effeminate'; and ';abusers of themselves with mankind';.
The two words in the original Greek are ';malakoi'; and ';arsenokoitai';. Malakoi is a very common Greek word. It literally means ';soft';. It is used in Matthew 11:7-18 and Luke 7:24-25 in reference to soft clothing. Scholars have to look at material outside of the Bible in order to try and figure out just what this means. The early church Fathers used the word to mean someone who was ';weak'; or ';soft'; in their morals and from the time of the reformation to the 20th century it was usually interpreted as masturbation. In Greek this word never is applied to gay people or homosexual acts in general. ';No new textual data effected the twentieth-century change in translation of this word: only a shift in popular morality. Since few people any longer regard masturbation as the sort of activity which would preclude entrance to heaven, the condemnation has simply been transferred to a group still so widely despised that their exclusion does not trouble translators or theologians.'; (See Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality, John Boswell, University of Chicago Press, 1980, page 105-107) ';Arsenokoitai'; is discussed in the next section as it is found here and in I Timothy 1:8-11.
Note: Greek contained no word which compares to the English noun ';homosexual'; meaning someone of homosexual orientation. In fact the word ';homosexual'; (meaning someone of homosexual orientation) was not even coined until the late 1800'S by German psychologists, and introduced into English only at the beginning of the 1900's. (See Christianity, Social Tolerance, and homosexuality, John Boswell, University of Chicago Press, 1980, page 42) However, during scriptural times there were a number of Greek words to describe homosexual sex acts and the two words ';malakois'; and ';arsenokoitai'; do not appear among them (on ';arsenokoitai'; see Boswell, pp 345-346.) [2]
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Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
~~~
1 Tim 1:9 again refers to malakoi arsenokoitai which has been variously translated as homosexuals, sexual perverts etc. Again, the original meaning of the text as been lost.[1]
Dr. Rembert Truluck writes of arsenokoitai:
The word translated as ';homosexual'; or ';sexual pervert'; or some other similar term is Greek arsenokoites, which was formed from two words meaning ';male'; and ';bed.'; This word is not found anywhere else in the Bible and has not been found anywhere in the contemporary Greek of Paul's time. We do not know what it means. The word is obscure and uncertain. It probably refers to male prostitutes with female customers, which was a common practice in the Roman world, as revealed in the excavations at Pompeii and other sites.
When early Greek speaking Christian preachers condemned homosexuality, they did not use this word. John Chrysostom (A.D. 345-407) preached in Greek against homosexuality, but he never used this word for homosexuals, and when he preached on 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10, he did not mention homosexuals. See the full discussion of this in John Boswell's book: Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality - Appendix 1, ';Lexicography and Saint Paul,'; pages 335-353.
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I TIMOTHY 1: 8-11
The word ';arsenokoitai'; (sometimes translated ';abusers of themselves with mankind';) literally means male-bed. ';Bed'; is a euphemism for copulating. This word is extremely rare in Greek. Paul was apparently the first author to use this word. The word taken literally (male-copulator) is very ambiguous. Take, for example, the word ';lady-killer.'; Does it mean ';a lady who kills'; or ';someone who kills ladies';? In our language it means the latter, but even then it is not clear because we do not mean that someone literally kills ladies but that their charm ';kills'; them. So taking the word ';arsenokoitai'; or ';male-copulator,'; does it mean ';a male who copulates men';; does it mean ';a man who copulates with women';; does it mean ';a man who is copulated?';
The Bible does not clarify. These are the only two passages in the whole Bible where this word is used... Apparently there is no known contemporaneous literature in which this word is used. However, relatively close to the time Paul wrote it was used to refer to a male copulator connected with temple prostitution. It probably had this meaning until the late fourth century after which it came to mean a lot of different things, including homosexual activity. (See The Bible and Homosexuality, Michael England and Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality, John Boswell, University of Chicago Press, 1980, page 42)
Even IF the words ';malakoi'; and ';arsenokoitai'; COULD be connected with a male homosexual sex acts it STILL would not tell us WHAT KIND OF HOMOSEXUAL SEX ACT IS BEING CONDEMNED. They could refer to sex practices connected with the worship of idols, pederasty or some other sexual act which is exploitive.
It is clear that the translation of these two words as ';sodomite';, ';pervert'; or ';homosexual'; has very little, if any, sound basis and is a result of homophobia. [2]
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Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
~~~
Jude 7 refers to the people of Sodom as ';giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh';. Strange flesh has been variously translated as perverted sensuality, unnatural lust, lust of men for other men, and perversion. Again, it is unclear what is being referred to here. Some biblical scholars interpret this as referring to an ancient Jewish legend that the women of Sodom engaged in sexual intercourse with angels.[1]
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JUDE 7
Some people ASSUME that this verse refers to the account of what happened in Genesis chapters 18 and 19. However this verse says that people in Sodom and Gomorrah went after ';strange flesh';. It does NOT say that they are talking about the account in Genesis 18-19. Some scholars believe that this passage actually refers to a Jewish legend, as contained in the apocryphal Naphtali 3.3.4-5 in The Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs, that the WOMEN of Sodom had intercourse with angels. (Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality, p. 97, Professor John Boswell and Homosexuality and the Western Christian Tradition, Derrick Sherwin Bailey, pp 11-16). It would not be unprecedented to believe that the author of Jude would refer to extrabiblical stories as he does so in Jude 6 (referring to a passage in the apocryphal Enoch 1:6-8) and in Jude 9 (referring to a Jewish tradition that the archangel Michael argued with Satan over the body of Moses). Even if one chooses to believe that this passage DOES refer to Genesis 18-19 one can not ASSUME that ';strange flesh'; means a ';man going after a man';, after all Lot's guests were NOT MEN but ANGELS, ';strange flesh'; indeed. The context of this passage is condemning a new teaching which did not honor angels (see Jude verse 8) an example of people attempting to dishonor angels is simply brought up here to illustrate the point. [2]
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Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
~~~
In summary:
homosexual activity in the temple by male prostitutes is clearly prohibited by the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament).
homosexual activity in general may have been prohibited at the time by the Holiness Code, but that code is no longer binding on Christians today.
St. Paul considered at least some male and female homosexual acts to be forbidden, but it is unclear precisely which acts are included. He may have been referring to temple prostitution, or to people who are not innately gay, lesbian or bisexual engaging in homosexual acts. One should note that Paul also condemned women preaching (1 Cor 14:34) or wearing gold or pearls (1 Tim 2:11). He also accepted and did not condemn the institution of slavery. Some Christians feel that his writings are not a useful guide for ethics and morals in the 20th Century.
Jesus made many hundreds of statements regarding belief and behaviour. However He never mentioned homosexuality.
There are two Biblical same-sex relationships (one between two women, the other two men) reported in the Bible in a positive light. They appear to have progressed well beyond friendship. They were likely homosexual affairs, although not necessarily sexually active relationships:
+ Ruth 1:16, 2:10-11 between Ruth and Naomi
+ 1 Samuel 18:1-4, 1 Samuel 20:41-42 and 2 Samuel 1:25-26 between David and Jonathan. (Some translations of the Bible distort the original Hebrew text, particularly of 1 Samuel 20)
It is the subject of endless debate whether St. Paul's prohibition of at least some homosexual acts was:
+ for the people in the vicinity of the Mediterranean during the 1st Century CE, or
+ for all people, forever.
One can argue that the ancient Israelites were surrounded by warlike tribes. Their fertility was very important if the group was to survive. The early Christian church was also surrounded by enemies. Homosexuals tend to have few children; thus their presence would be met with opposition. At the end of the 20th Century, conditions are the exact opposite; we are threatened by our excessive fertility. Perhaps Paul's criticism of homosexuality is no longer valid, like his various prohibitions against women's behaviour. [1]
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IN CONCLUSION:
There is an extreme amount of prejudice and hatred directed toward gay people. In my opinion this bias has had an influence in the translations of the Bible. Words with uncertain meaning are translated as if there is no doubt that they refer to homosexuals. Words that quite obviously do not mean ';homosexual'; are blatantly mistranslated, as in the transformation of ';male temple prostitute'; into ';sodomite'; or ';perverted one';. Even the New Covenant of grace in Jesus Christ is ignored in favor of being condemnatory through the use of the Old Covenant.
It would seem to me to be a violation of the basic beliefs of ';conservative'; theology or ';fundamentalism'; to use verses or words as blanket condemnations without regard as to why the verses/words were written in the FIRST place; or without accurately reflecting the meaning of a word; or without admitting when they don't know or are unsure of the meaning of a word.
The fact of the matter is that there is no clear condemnation of people of homosexual orientation living out their lives fully expressing their orientation, sexually or otherwise, anywhere in the Scriptures. The most that can be said is that there are some verses which seem to condemn some homosexual acts under circumstances that we are not aware of. This extreme ambiguity on the part of the few Scriptures concerned, coupled with the clear proclamation of the Gospel for all people leads me to believe that gay people are affirmed by God in their orientation and in their living out that orientation. Please take a moment and read the following section talking about God's...
GOOD NEWS FOR ALL PEOPLE! You, and all people, are created in God's image! (Gen. 1:27) You are special! (Ps 8:4-5) There is NOTHING that can separate you from the love of God. (Romans 8:39) WHOSOEVER believes has eternal life. (John 3:16, 6:51, Romans 1:16-17, 10:13) God is with you-challenging oppression and injustice! (Isaiah 42: 6-7, 58:6, Amos 5:24, Micah 6:8, Luke 4:18-22) You are a part of the New Covenant! The New Covenant is one of grace (which means unearned love) in Jesus Christ. It is not concerned with gender roles or sexual orientation for in Christ there is ';neither male nor female';. (Gal. 3:28) In fact, do you know what Jesus had to say about homosexuality? NOTHING! - not one word! It was a non-issue not even worth mentioning!
The New Covenant accepts even those who had formerly not been acceptable because of their sexual or reproductive status. You do not have to bear children in order to be included in God's family! (Isaiah 56:1-5, Matt 19:12) The Old Covenant was very concerned about such things. Deuteronomy 23:1 would not allow castrated men to be a part of the Old Covenant yet in Acts 8 we are shown that the New Covenant sets that prohibition aside. The Ethiopian Eunuch was baptized, accepted into the New Covenant, while still being a foreigner and a eunuch! God didn't have to change this person in order to love and accept this person fully!
The New Covenant did away with distinctions of clean and unclean, which opened the door for ALL people to be a part of the New Covenant. (Acts 10) The Gentiles were treated by the Jews the way that many Christians of today treat homosexuals, yet God revealed to Peter that he had to set aside his prejudice and could no longer condemn and exclude others because they didn't fit into the rules of the Old Covenant.
God loves you and affirms the love of heterosexual and same-gender relationships! The same-gender relationships of Ruth and Naomi (Ruth 1:16) and of David and Jonathan (II Samuel 1:26 - ';Jonathan... your love for me was wonderful, surpassing the love of women.';) are respected and honored.
God tells all people who have felt alienated because of the pain of prejudice and hatred, ';in Christ Jesus, you who once were far away have been brought near... You are no longer strangers, foreigners or aliens, but fellow citizens with all God's people.'; (Ephesians 2:11-22)
Finally, God reminds us that no matter what our orientation is, or what our beliefs are on homosexuality, we need to remember that ';God is love';. (I John 4). We need to follow the law of love: ';LOVE GOD, LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, LOVE ONE ANOTHER!'; (Lev. 19:18, Matt 19:19, Mark 12:31, 33, Luke 10:27, John 15:12, 17, Romans 12:9-10, Galatians 5:14, James 2:8) [2]
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Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality
Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
Hon...sorry but if you are gay you already know the deal, and how it is going to end. No, God did not write the bible...but he did influence it. So it is your choice to be gay just know you better make a change soon.
The bible is outdated technology. Technology that was misused to scare people into the church and donate!
nope, have fun being gay, or straight or whatever. If someone un married and christian asks you if you know you are going to hell for being gay (I am not gay by the way but I like to give this bit of advice to my gay friends) ask them if they are a virgin. If they say no reply so are you. and walk away. All sins are considered equal by the judgemental protestant right, so if being gay is evil so is humping before you are married. So even if you are a christian (by the way I am not) it is ok to be gay. The christ will forgive everyone right? That is what I was brought up to believe I just don't/
The Bible was written by men and inspired by God so therefore cannot be wrong. To God, it is clear that homosexuality is a sin...... Your inner voice is telling you that it is wrong as well, and the proof is that you would have not written what you did if you believed it was right....
Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Mark 7:20
He went on: ';What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' ';
Timothy 1:9-11
realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching
1 Kings 14:24
There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
Romans 1:26-27
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Homosexuality
1. Is wicked and sinful (Gen.13:13; 18:20).
2. Is an abomination (Le. 18:22; De. 23:17-18; I Ki. 14:24).
3. Is a capital crime that deserved capital punishment in Old Testament times(Lev. 20:13; Rom. 7:32).
4. Is of the Devil or Satanic (Judg. 19:22 ).
5. Is folly or foolish to get involved in (Judg. 19:23).
6. Is condemned by God (I Ki. 14:24; Col. 3:4-6; II Pe. 2:6; Jude 7).
7. Is to be eliminated by government officials, not tolerated or encouraged (I Ki. 15:11-12; 22:46; II Ki. 23:7).
8. Is common in proud, prosperous, materialistic, self-sufficient societies (Ez. 16:49-50; Ec.10:18).
9. Is characteristic of a society that has rejected or turned its back on God (Rom. 1:24-32).
10. Is characteristic of a society in which the creature is worshipped more than the creator; an
idolatrous, man-centered society instead of God-centered society (Rom. 1:25).
11. Is a sin that keeps people out of heaven (I Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21).
12. Is a sin from which one can be delivered (I Cor. 6:11).
13. Is contrary to sound doctrine (I Ti. 1:9-10).
14. Is just as wicked as witchcraft, hatred, heresy, idolatry, adultery, thievery, covetousness, drunkenness, extortion, murder, prostitution, kidnapping, lying, perjury, sorcery, or any other sin (I Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21; I Ti. 1:9-10; Rev. 22:15).
15. Is fornication (Mt. 15:19; Mk. 7:21; Acts 15:20,29; 21:25; Rom. 1:29; I Cor. 6:9, 13, 18; 7:2; 10:8; II Cor. 12:21; Gal. 5:19; Eph. 5:3; Col. 3:5; I Thes. 4:3; Rev. 2:14, 20-21; 9:21).
16. Is based on a selfish misunderstanding of sex (I Cor. 7:2-5).
17. Can be overcome through salvation and a Biblical marital relationship (I Cor. 7:2-5).
18. Results from man's depravity (Mt. 15:19; Mk. 7:21).
19. Dishonors the human body (I Cor. 6:13 ).
20. Is to be avoided at all costs (I Cor. 5:18; 10:8; Eph. 5:3; II Th. 4:3).
21. Is a work of the flesh (Gal 5:19).
22. Is contrary to God's will (I Th. 4:3).
23. Is unseemly or improper (Rom. 1:27).
24. Is against nature and is vile (Rom. 1:26).
25. Is unclean and dishonorable (Rom. 1:24).
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